ESSENTIAL QUESTIONS
- Why does Holden seem so ambivalent about the adult world?
- Why does Holden fear or resist change?
- Why does Holden struggle to develop meaningful relationships with his family and peers?
SAMPLE POST:
Why does Holden seem so ambivalent about the adult world?
When describing the difference between what ads at Pencey promise and what the school is really like, Holden reveals how suspicious he is of the adult world . He doubts that "they do any more molding at Pencey than they do at any other school." (Salinger 2) Holden implies that schools do not make us who we are and might even give us a false impression of who we could or should become.
When Holden is talking about the carrousel and the music it played he writes, "That's the one nice thing about carrousels, they always play the same songs" (Salinger 210). This shows Holden doesn't like change because he would rather the music in the carrousel be the same rather than different. He wants what he knows to remain the same and he doesn't want that to change (Holden resists change).
ReplyDeleteAfter Holden brought the two little kids to the mummy section of the museum, he enjoyed staying alone in the quiet tomb because it was all peaceful. Then he finds himself looking at a swear written on the wall. He states, "you can't ever find a place that's nice and peaceful, because there isn't any" (Salinger 204). This example shows that Holden seems ambivalent about the adult world because he is seeing flaws that he couldn't see before as a child (such as the swear word). He wants to erase the flaws in the adult world and stay at peace forever, but these flaws are everywhere and unavoidable.
ReplyDeleteHolden meets Phoebe at the museum, and Phoebe tells Holden she wants to run away with him, to which Holden replies no, and then, "'In the first place, I'm not going anywhere, I told you. I'm going home. I'm going home as soon as you go back to school'" (Salinger 208). Holden tells Phoebe he's not going to run away, but only after she says she wants to come. He doesn't want her to get hurt, and he wants her to stay and be a good girl, to go to school. But another reason he's not running away might be that he realized that he can't just keep running away from his problems, and he has to actually talk to someone.
ReplyDeleteWhen Holden is talking about the carrousel and the music it played he writes, "That's the one nice thing about carrousels, they always play the same songs" (Salinger 210). This shows that Holden resists change because he likes how the music on the carousel is never different. He wants the things that he knows to stay the same and not change. He feels that life will be to difficult if things were to be different, he just wants things to stay the way they are.
ReplyDeleteHolden struggles to develop meaningful relationships because he never wants to talk to anyone. He wanted to run away and pretend he's a mute so he wouldn't ever have to talk to anyone. "...then I'd be through with having conversations for yhe rest of my life" (Salinger 198). He never even called Jane because he was never "in the mood".
ReplyDeleteWhen Holden is walking around the city he starts, "talking to my brother Allie"(Salinger 198). Holden has trouble developing meaningful relationships because he holds onto his old relationships from the past which isolates him from everybody else.
ReplyDeleteWhen Phoebe is riding on the carousel he gets soaked, "I didn't care, though. I felt so damn happy all of a sudden". Holden only feels happy around young children that haven't been tainted by phonies. Holden struggles to have meaningfull connections with older people because they have tainted.
ReplyDeleteWhat Holden is alone in the mummies tomb, he says, "That's the whole trouble. You can't ever find a place that's nice and peaceful, because there isn't any. You may think there is, but once you get there, when you're not looking, somebody'll sneak up and write "Fuck you" right under your nose" (204). This shows how holden is ambivalent about the adult world, because whenever you find a nice place, somebody will come along and ruin it for you.
ReplyDeleteHolden shows he fears change when he says, "I sort of miss everybody I told about," (Salinger 214). He fears change here because he doesn't want new experiences.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteWhile Holden waits for phoebe at the museum he's looking at the wall and notices the two curses on the wall that he's see all day he says "that's the whole trouble. You can't ever find a palace that's nice and peaceful, because there isn't any. You may think there is,but once you get there , when you're not looking, somebody'll sneak up and write "f*** you" (204. This shows why Holden has troubles developing relationships he fears that he'll never find a place to be perfect because someone always comes and messes it up
When Holden is at the zoo with phoebe he says that the carousel" played that same song about fifty years ago when I was a little kid. That's one nice thing about carousels, they always play the same songs"( Salinger 210). This shows that Holden likes things to stay the same. He fears and resists change because of this.
ReplyDeleteHolden is talking about the carrousel and the music it played he writes, "That's the one nice thing about carrousels, they always play the same songs" This shows Holden doesn't like change because he would rather the music in the carrousel be the same rather than different.
ReplyDeleteAs Holden is walking tk the museum he starts to reminisce on past Christmases with Phoebe and thinks, "She's not little enough any more to go stark staring mad in the toy depatrment, but she enjoys horsing around and looking at the people" (Salinger 197). He then goes on to describe a memory of them ina shoe store. This shows how Holden valies Phoebies youth and can be saddened as he sees it start to fade away.
ReplyDeleteAfter Phoebe asks Holden if she can go away with him and Holden keeps telling her 'no" in a negative manor Phoebe starts to cry. Holden thinks that, "All of a sudden i wanted her to cry till her eyes practically dropped out. I almost hated her" (Salinger 207). Holden is seeing her in this bad place and he doesn't even care enough to comfort her. Holden struggles to build strong relationships with his family members because he just makes them feel horrible. And when Phoebe is crying all he can think about is her being and wanting her to be more miserable and how he almost doesn't even like her in that moment.
ReplyDeleteWhen Holden shows the two kids where the mummy exhibit is, they pass through a hallway made out of stones from a Pharaoh's tomb. Holden finds it interesting, the kids are scared by it. Once the kids leave, Holden just stands there, thinking he found a place where he can relax and be peaceful. He then sees a curse word written on one of the stones. He realizes that "you can't ever find a place that's nice and peaceful, because there isn't any" (Salinger 204). This shows that Holden is very ambivalent about the adult world, believing that there is no good, happy, peaceful place left in the world. Because no matter how perfect it might seem, there is always one small detail that would ruin completely ruin it.
ReplyDeleteAs Holden is walking down Fifth Avenue, he comments, "I had this feeling that I'd never get to the other side of the street. I thought I'd just go down, down, down, and nobody's ever see me again" (Salinger 197). This highlights Holden's ambivalence towards adulthood because making it across the street is a metaphor for making it to adulthood. Holden is unsure if he will be able to cross the street or become fully-adjusted to the adult world.
ReplyDeleteWhen Holden is walking down fifth avenue, he explains, ""I had this feeling that I'd never get to the other side of the street. I thought I'd just go down, down, down, and nobody's ever see me again" (Salinger 197). This shows Holden's ambivalence toward the adult world because "making it across the street" is actually a metaphor for becoming an adult. Holden does not know if he will be able to "cross the street" or become a true adult.
ReplyDeleteAs Holden and Phoebe approach the carrousel, Holden, "starts to hear that nutty music it always plays. It was playing, 'Oh, Marie!' It played that same song about fifty years ago when I was a little kid. That's one nice thing about carrousels, they always play the same songs"(210 Salinger). This quote demonstrates how Holden is resistant to change because throughout most of the book, he is criticizing everything, however he appreciates things the same music that is played at the carrousel.
ReplyDeleteWhen Holden is at the zoo with phoebe he says that the carousel "...played that same song about fifty years ago when I was a little kid. That's one nice thing about carousels, they always play the same songs" (Salinger 210). This shows that Holden likes things to stay the same. He fears and resists change because of this. His childish behavior reflects the fact that he hasn't changed his behavior and attitude since he was a child.
ReplyDeleteWe see Holden as an middle school English teacher in the future. This would be fitting for him because the only subject he didn't fail was English. Also, at the end of chapter 25 he seemed to enjoy watching kids mature and he could guide them that way to make sure they weren't on track for the fall he nearly fell on.
ReplyDeleteMuseum group
DeleteDucks Group:
ReplyDelete- stay in mental hospital for a while
- get out and try to pick himself up
- try to see world differently but it will still be pretty much the same to him
- try to get a job, but will be hard because he never finished school
- will try to change but will end up going back to the way he was
#PhoneBoothGroup
ReplyDelete-stay in hospital for a bit
-gets a job at a Middle School, teaching kids that used to be like him
-dedicated his life to helping others have a direction in their lives and not end up like him
-motivational speaker
-moves to the forests of Maine
Taxicab group
ReplyDelete5 years later
-lives in an apartment in New Jersey
-writes children's books
-still talks to his mom, but not his dad
-visits Phoebe often
-in a relationship with Jane, but not married
- won't go to college
ReplyDelete- never calls Jane
- becomes a writer
- makes an effort in school
- his work will not be well received but he won't be bothered
Ewen, Paul, Danny, Ben
Holden tries his hardest to resist change and he apreciates that same quality in other people and things. "It played that song about 50 years ago when i was a little kid. Thats one nice thing about Carrousels, they always play the same songs." I think the reason Holden values this quality so much and apreciates it in small things like the carrouseels is it almost makes it feel like it was that same day when he was a little kid and he went to the Carousel and he heard the same song and he can forgot all the bad things that have happened since.
ReplyDeleteHolden demonstrates his fear of change when he says, "Somebody'd written 'F*** you' on the wall. It drove me damn near crazy. I thought how Phoebe and all the other little kids would see it, and they'd wonder what the hell it meant, and then finally some dirty kid would tell them-all cockeyed, naturally-what it meant, and how they'd all think about it and maybe even worry about it for a couple of days" (Salinger 200). This shows Holden's fear of change because he wants them to stay innocent but that can't happen so he worries about all the possible negative effects.
ReplyDelete