ESSENTIAL QUESTIONS
- Why does Holden seem so ambivalent about the adult world?
- Why does Holden fear or resist change?
- Why does Holden struggle to develop meaningful relationships with his family and peers?
SAMPLE POST:
Why does Holden seem so ambivalent about the adult world?
When describing the difference between what ads at Pencey promise and what the school is really like, Holden reveals how suspicious he is of the adult world . He doubts that "they do any more molding at Pencey than they do at any other school." (Salinger 2) Holden implies that schools do not make us who we are and might even give us a false impression of who we could or should become.
When Holden is talking to his sister about what he likes "I know he's dead! You don't think I know that? I can still like him, though, can't i? Just because somebody's dead, you don't just stop liking them, for God's sake- especially if they were about a thousand times nicer than the other people you know that've alive and all" (Salinger 171) this shows how Holden doesn't want to move on from Allie, it shows how he resists change.
ReplyDeleteWhile Holden is with Phoebe she tells him to name one thing he likes. Holden continues the conversation by saying he liked Allie. Phoebe denies that he could use that however Holden argues on why he can't use that example. " why the hell isn't it? People never think anything is anything really. I'm getting goddamn sick of it" (172). This is why Holden has trouble developing meaningful relationships, he struggles to accept what others believe
ReplyDeleteWhen Holden's parents come home, Holden "got in the closet and shut the door"(Salinger 177). Holden is so ambivalent to the adult world because he refuses to act like one. Holden is unable to come to terms with being kicked out of Pencey. He refuses to be honest with his parents and so Holden has trouble acting like an adult thus he doesn't know what it's actually like to be an adult.
ReplyDeleteHolden brings up Allie quite frequently and when he's talking to Phoebe, he says, "Just because somebody's dead, you don't just stop liking them..." (Salinger 171). He keeps remembering Allie and refuses to let go of what happened to him. He is just resisting change.
ReplyDeletePhoebe asks Holden what he wants to be, and he replies, "Lawyers are all right, I guess...if they go around saving innocent guys' lives all the time...[but all they do] is make a lot of dough and play golf and play bridge and buy cars and drink Martinis and look like a hot shot...How would you know you weren't being a phony?" (Salinger 172). Here, Holden says lawyers are alright, then rants about how they do a bunch of phony stuff. He's ambivalent about the adult world because, here, he considers all lawyers phonies, and he acts like he knows everything about being one, but he actually doesn't.
ReplyDeleteHolden shows his resistance of change when he's talking to Phoebe about what he really likes when he says, "I like Allie," (Salinger 171). Holden can't leave the past behind him. So he tells Phoebe that he likes his dead brother because he doesn't want to move on.
ReplyDeleteWhen Holden is leaving his house, he says, "I figured if they caught me, they caught me. I almost wished they did, in a way" (180). This shows how Holden fears and resists change, because he is undergoing a big change here (moving away) and he is hoping someone will come and stop him.
ReplyDeleteHolden has difficulty making relationships with people, because of his lack of social skills, for example in chapter 22 he is always swearing even after his sister tells him not to specifically on page 168, "don't swear so much" I believe the first step in a relationship would be, at the least coexisting and he can't even do that with his own sister.
ReplyDeleteHolden is someone who can't make up his mind. His sister Phoebe says,"you don't like anything that's happening" and Holden responds, "Yes I do. Yes I do. Sure I do. Don't say that. Why the hell would you say that?" Phoebe says, "Because you don't. You don't like any schools. You don't like a million things. You don't"(Salinger 169). Even his sister can tell that he has trouble liking things and making up his mind. She asks him to name just one thing he likes and he can't even do that. This shows he has trouble not only making relationships with others but sort of making a relationship with his thoughts.
ReplyDeleteHolden is in D.B's room with phoebe late at night. They get into an argument over how Holden doesn't like many people or things. Holden then says he likes Allie, his brother, when phoebe says he's dead Holden replies with,"I know he's dead! Don't you think I know that? I can still like him, though, Can't I? Holden doesn't want to move on from his brother Allie because he does love him, but overall he resists change and fears it.
ReplyDeleteWhen Phoebe asks Holden to tell her something he likes, he writes, "The trouble was I couldn't concentrate too hot. Sometimes its hard to concentrate" (Salinger 169). At a first glance it may seem this is nothing but as their conversation continues, Holden really can't concentrate on anything he really likes and he acknowledges this. This means he can't develop meaningful relationships with people because of the person he is. He's honestly more cynical than most adolescents and he doesn't see much good in anyone or anything unless they're kids or someone who isn't a phony. Basically, because Holden doesn't like much, he can't like the good in people.
ReplyDeleteAs Holden is informing Phoebe about how everybody at Pencey is a phony and is troubled, Phoebe strikes Holden with an unexpected response, "'You don't like anything that's happening.' It made me even more depressed when she said that... 'One thing? One thing I like?' I said. 'Okay.' The trouble was, I couldn't concentrate too hot. Sometimes it's hard to concentrate"(169). By struggling to find any good memories during his time in Pencey, he makes it clear that he fails to develop strong relationships. Instead he perceives everyone as a phony pushing himself away from empathizing with others.
ReplyDeleteWhen talking to Phoebe in her room, Holden is asked what he likes. He thinks that lawyers are good for saving the innocent, but they become phonies from all the money that they make. All that Holden wants to do is to catch innocent children falling off the cliff of a rye field. He writes, "I know it's crazy, but it's the only thing I'd like to be. I know it's crazy" (Salinger 173). This example supports Holden's ambivalence towards the adult world because Holden wants to play a role in the society that doesn't exist - to do good deeds without getting paid back and becoming a "hot-shot."
ReplyDeleteHolden cannot let go of the times he's had with his dead brother Allie. When Phoebe asks him one thing that he likes he tells her, "'I like Allie'" she then responds, " Allies dead- you always say that! If somebody's dead and everything, and in Heaven, then it isn't really-'" (Salinger 171) Holden refuses to let him go and he keeps coming back to him even though he is gone. Thus Holden rufeses change because he can't cant move on to what happened to Allie.
ReplyDeleteWhen Holden visits Phoebe, she asks him what he actually really likes. Holden has difficulty coming up with an answer, resulting in Phoebe saying that he doesn't "like any schools. You don't like a million things" (Salinger 169). The fact that he's being called out on the fact that he hates everything, shows that all he does is talk about things he hates, and it annoys people. Phoebe doesn't want to hear about it, and she doesn't feel like being depressed. Holden tries to deny the fact that he hates pretty much everything, but deep down he knows that she's right. He didn't realize it until someone that he cares about a lot called him out on it, and he didn't want to believe it.
ReplyDeleteWhen Phoebe is asking what things Holden likes, she tells him that the two of them spending time together "isn't anything." Holden replies, telling her that "it is so something really! Certainly it is! Why the hell isn't it? People never think anything is anything really. I'm getting goddam sick of it" (Salinger 172). This exchange shows how Holden believes that most people are very closed-minded and critical in regards to what constitutes a real activity. Differences such as these between Holden and others could serve as points of contention and make it difficult for him to develop truly meaningful relationships with them.
ReplyDeleteWhen Holden is visiting Phoebe, she states, "You don't like anything that's happening...you don't. You don't like any schools. You do t like a million things. You don't (Salinger 169). This shows how Holden could have trouble developing meaningful relationships with family and peers because he is actually being called out by his sister that he is always depressed and negative. Phoebe doesn't want to hear about it. Holden tries to deny it, but really knows that its true.
ReplyDeleteWhen Phoebe is asking Holden to name one thing he actually likes he says Allie. Phoebe says that it doesn't count, because Allie is dead, and Holden says, "I know he's dead! Don't you think I know that? I can still like him, though, can't I? Just because somebody's dead, you don't just stop liking them, for God's sake – especially if they were about a thousand times nicer than the people you know that're alive and all" (Salinger 171). Although Holden can accept the fact that Allie is gone, he still suffers with the dissatisfaction that things are different without him. He can use Alloe to relfect on good memories that will never change, and fill in all the good factors that he feels are missing from the real world.
ReplyDeleteWhen Holden's parents come home, Holden "got in the closet and shut the door"(Salinger 177). This shows how Holden is ambivalent to the adult world because he is afraid to confront his parents about the fact that he got kicked out of Pencey. He doesn't want to tell them and will continue to hide until he builds up the courage to tell his parents.
ReplyDeleteHolden hates the adult world but what he hates even more is that the adults were once kids just like him, he is scared he adulthood will change him untill he becomes just another phony. " telling us how when he was at Pencey they were the happiest days of his life" Here an alumni of Pencey is talking to Holden about how fond he was of his Pencey days, it is people like this that Holden does not want to become and so he does everything possible not to have a good time at Pencey so twenty years later he wont be coming back to Pencey to tell the students about how great Pencey was like this alumni is.
ReplyDeleteHolden has difficulty creating meaningful relationships with his family. For example, on page 167, Holden lies to Phoebe about how mean all the guys at Pency are. He even goes as far as to say that there was "this secret fraternity that [Holden] was too yellow not to join". He then goes on to say how they wouldn't let Ackley join because he was ugly and pimply. This, all the time while he's talking to his beloved Phoebe, whom he spent over an entire page talking about in a positive light.
ReplyDeleteWhen holden said "I'm standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff." He wants to save kid's life. Not the adult's life. I think he doesn't want them to live the same way as he has been living. And it implies that he is ambivalent about the adult world.
ReplyDelete