ESSENTIAL QUESTIONS
- Why does Holden seem so ambivalent about the adult world?
- Why does Holden fear or resist change?
- Why does Holden struggle to develop meaningful relationships with his family and peers?
SAMPLE POST:
Why does Holden seem so ambivalent about the adult world?
When describing the difference between what ads at Pencey promise and what the school is really like, Holden reveals how suspicious he is of the adult world . He doubts that "they do any more molding at Pencey than they do at any other school." (Salinger 2) Holden implies that schools do not make us who we are and might even give us a false impression of who we could or should become.
Holden struggles to develop relationships because he hasn't learned to accept people the way they are. While at the bar with Luce Holden says ," these intellectual guys don't like to have intellectual conversations with you unless they're running the whole thing" (147). If Holden were just to understand that others are different and don't always want to talk about the same think as Holden, he would have a lot more friends to talk to
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ReplyDeleteHolden left the skating rink, and thinks about a boy Jane danced with that "thought he was very hot stuff. All muscles and no brains...I couldn't understand it...I asked her how come she could date a show off bastard like [him]" (Salinger 135). Because Holden really likes Jane, he can't understand why she is dating the other guy and not Holden. He thinks that everyone should be like him, and that he's so smart and "hot stuff". He hasn't changed from when he liked Jane, and he doesn't want anyone to tell him Jane likes someone else. He doesn't want change to happen between him and Jane.
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ReplyDeleteWhile Holden is talking with his old friend Luce in the bar, he keeps questioning about Luce's sex life. Luce is annoyed with Holden's behavior and says, "When in the hell are you going to grow up?" (146). This quote clearly shows that Luce has already become mature and quit his "sex talks," whereas Holden has in mind that Luce is still who he used to be. As a result, Holden acts terribly and weakens his friendship with Luce. This demonstrates that one reason Holden struggles to develop meaningful relationships is because his peers are changing, while he still expects things to be the same as always.
ReplyDeleteWhen Holden is at the bar with Luce, he keeps asking him really personal questions that Luce doesn't feel like answering. Eventually, Luce tells him to drop it, making Holden realize that he "was getting a little too personal" (Salinger 147). Though Holden realizes that he is getting too personal, he still continues to ask Luce personal questions about his sex life and his girlfriend. This is yet another reason why he has difficulty developing relationships with people. He just doesn't know when to quit. If he knew when to stop, people wouldn't get annoyed with him and leave in the middle of hanging out with him. He worries that they'll leave, but still acts like this.
ReplyDeleteWhen Holden is talking about the people he sees at the bar he says, "The other end of the bar is full of flits" (Salinger 142). Holden doesn't see those people as those who are attracted to the same sex but rather as "Flints", a word associated with other derogatory terms for homosexuals. This shows Holden can't create or maintain relationships with people because instead of seeing others how he might see them, he sees them how the rest of his society sees them.
ReplyDeleteWhen Holden is talking about the army and the invention of the atom bomb in particular, he says that "if there's ever another war, I'm going to sit right the hell on top of it. I'll volunteer for it, I swear to God I will" (Salinger 141). Holden's desire to sit on the atom bomb if there is a war show how he is reluctant to deal with new situations, such as wars arising. Holden would rather die than have to live in the changed world and this shows his resistance to change.
ReplyDeleteWhen Holden is talking about the army and saying, "if there's ever another war, I'm going to sit right the hell on top of it. I'll volunteer for it, I swear to God I will" (Salinger 141), Salinger could also be referencing Holden's ambivalence to the adult world. He may have other views on how to settle conflicts.
DeleteWhen Holden is talking with Luce, Luce keeps saying "Let's drop it... Do you mind?" and Holden says "all right, but listen,"(Salinger 147). Holden has trouble developing meaningful relationships with his peers because he is insensitive to what other people want. He ignores them and always ends up upsetting them.
ReplyDeleteWhen Holden meets up with his old friend Luce in the bar, he keeps asking about Luce's sex life. Luce is very annoyed with Holden's behavior and asks Holden, "When in the hell are you going to grow up?" (146). This quote clearly shows that Luce has already become mature and quit his "sex talks," whereas Holden thinks that Luce is still who he used to be. Because of his incorrect view, Holden continues his immature questions and Luce just gets more upset. Their relationship weakens. This demonstrates that one reason Holden struggles to develop meaningful relationships is because his peers are changing, while he still expects things to be the same as always: childish and immature.
ReplyDeleteHolden shows his ambivalence to the adult world when he talks about the woman that sat next to him at the movie theater. Because she cried a lot during the movie, Holden assumed she'd be a kindhearted. As it turned out, "She was about as kindhearted as a damn wolf," (Salinger 140). Holden goes on to say, "You take somebody that cries their damn eyes out over phony stuff in the movies [to be kindhearted], and nine times out of ten they're mean bastards at heart. I'm not kidding," (Salinger 140). Holden is ambivalent of the adult world because he makes assumptions like that.
ReplyDeleteWhen Holden is talking about the army and the invention of the atom bomb in particular, he says that "if there's ever another war, I'm going to sit right the hell on top of it. I'll volunteer for it, I swear to God I will" (Salinger 141). Holden's desire to sit on this atom bomb is showing us that he would rather die than fix the situation he is in. This is new way of dealing with tough problems.
ReplyDeleteThroughout the book we have learned about Hodens difficulty creating relationships with people, one way this is evidenced is that he keeps thinking of calling the same people/ "the trouble was though my adress book only has about three people in it" Holden does his best to conceal it but there are very few people he has a meaningfull relationship and there are many times when he needs someone to talk to and depend on and there is no body for him to turn to so he keeps calling Jane.
ReplyDeleteWhen holden was talking about the military "I'm going to sit right the hell on top of it. I'll volunteer for it, I swear to God I will" (Salinger 141)." I think it can be shown that he is lying to himself. He knows that he can't do this if he faces this happening. By doing it, it shows that he is not immature yet and hard to develop with other people who is becoming mature already.
ReplyDeleteAs Holden watches a play at Radio City while waiting for Carl Luce he notices the guy that plays the kettle drums and remarks that, " He's the best drummer I ever saw. He only gets a chance to bang them a couple of times during a whole piece, but he never looks bored when he isn't doing it. Then when he does bang them, he does it so nice and sweet, with this nervous expression on his face"(Salinger 138). Holden expresses his envy for the drum player because in contrast with the previous performers, he enjoys watching him when he does the same sequence doesn't show off due to his nervous face. This quotes demonstrates to the reader that Holden is hesitant to change because he likes to predict or know what will happen so he doesn't have to face any uncertainty.
ReplyDeleteHolden shows his ambivalence to the adult world when he is talking about a woman that was in the movie theatre. Because she cried so much, he thought she'd be kindhearted, but then after she yelled at her kid, he thinks her to be "as kindhearted as a goddam wolf"(140). "You take somebody that cries their damn eyes out over phony stuff in the movies, and nine times out of ten they're mean bastards at heart. I'm not kidding," (Salinger 140). Holden is clearly ambivalent to the adult world because he makes assumptions about adults.
ReplyDeleteWhen Holden meets with Luce at the bar he keeps asking questions about Luce's sex life and his relationships that he doesn't really want to answer, "'lets drop it,' old Luce said. 'Do you mind?' (Salinger 147). Holden clearly wants to know more about about this subject because he's not as grown up yet as Luce who knows a lot. This shows that Holden is ambivalent about the adult world because he doesn't quite understand sex and he keeps wanting to know more.
ReplyDeleteWhen Holden is describing the Wicker Bar to us, he says that "If you sat around there long enough and heard all the phonies applauding and all, you got to hate everybody in the world, I swear you did" (142). Holden hates the fact that the world is full of these "phonies" making him miserable. This is why Holden is ambivalent towards the adult world, because he doesn't want to be in a world full of these people.
ReplyDeleteHolden struggles to make meaningfull relationships with his peers because he's very immature at times. On page (145) he is talking to Luce and is only interested in the topic of sex. This would make it an interesting conversation for only Holden.
ReplyDeleteWhen Holden is at the wicker bar he says that, "If you sat around there long enough and heard all the phonies applauding and all, you got to hate everybody in the world, I swear you did"(Salinger 142). Holden at this point is hating people just for them applauding someone. This makes it impossible for Holden to develop meaningful relationships with other people.
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