ESSENTIAL QUESTIONS
- Why does Holden seem so ambivalent about the adult world?
- Why does Holden fear or resist change?
- Why does Holden struggle to develop meaningful relationships with his family and peers?
SAMPLE POST:
Why does Holden seem so ambivalent about the adult world?
When describing the difference between what ads at Pencey promise and what the school is really like, Holden reveals how suspicious he is of the adult world . He doubts that "they do any more molding at Pencey than they do at any other school." (Salinger 2) Holden implies that schools do not make us who we are and might even give us a false impression of who we could or should become.
When Holden says "I thought of giving old Jane a buzz, to see if she was home yet and all, but I wasn't in the mood." (Salinger 105) I feel like that phrase is just an excuse for Holden, because he doesn't want to admit that he is scared things have changed.
ReplyDeleteWhen Holden is on the phone with Sally, she says that going out sounds grand. Holden doesn't like the word grand and "was tempted to tell her to forget about the mantinee"(Salinger 106). This is an example of Holden yet again coming up with an excuse that prevents him from delevoping meaningful relations BUT, Holden does carry out his plans which shows he's also maturing. Another thing that prevents him from developing meaningful relationships is the fact that he called Sally instead of Jane.
ReplyDeleteAt a sandwich bar, Holden meets two nuns, and they sit next to him and talk to him for a while. "I said I'd enjoyed talking to them a lot, too. I meant it, too" (Salinger 112). Here, Holden has been talking to these two nuns, and not once did he lie or make up excuses to leave. This time, they were leaving him. He's ambivalent about the adult world. Holden thinks most adults are phonies, but these he had a more positive thought of, and he enjoyed talking to them.
ReplyDeleteHolden struggles to develop relationships with people because he judges them before he even knows who they are by their looks or what they have. "...I can even get to hate somebody, just looking at them, if they have cheap suitcases with them" (Salinger 108). That is why he struggles to make friends. Because he won't take the time to get to know them and makes his mind up that he hates them before he knows them.
ReplyDeleteHolden struggles to devolve relationships because of the way he treats people for example on page(106),"swell. Listen. How are ya, anyway? I mean school? Fine she said. I mean-you know. Swell" I feel like Holden was to abrupt with how he talks when she says well you know he kind of brushes past that and he lies about it being "swell" for him because he just got punched by a pimp the other day.
ReplyDeleteHolden shows his struggle to maintain meaningful relationships when he says, "my big trouble is, I always sort of think whoever I'm necking is a pretty intelligent person. It hasn't got a g-ddam thing to do with it, but I keep thinking it anyway," (Salinger 105). If Holden "necks" with girls just because he thinks they're smart, then their relationship won't have meaning. Sometimes the girl wont even be smart. There can't be a meaningful relationship if it's just based of 1 characteristic.
ReplyDeleteHolden is sitting on the train with two nuns, he says that "She had a big nose, and she had on those glasses with sort of iron rims that aren't too attractive, but she had a helluva kind face."(Salinger 109) Holden is very ambivalent when he's describing the nun, because he talks about different things about her that aren't attractive, but then says that she's attractive.
ReplyDeleteWhile Holden is disgusting how much he hates people with cheap luggages he quickly changes subjects when figures out the only reason " he did it was because he wanted people to think my bags were his " (108). Once holden is aware that his roommate is only doing it because of that reason he starts saying the positive stuff about him.This is why holden struggles to develop friends ship, he most,y says the bad in others unless he has a reason to say the positive.
ReplyDelete* discussing
DeleteOn page 105, Holden says "I thought of giving old Jane a buzz, to see if she was home yet and all, but I wasn't in the mood". Holden fears and resists change, because he is fearful of what will happen when he breaks this streak of not calling Jane and calls her.
ReplyDeleteHolden has just met two nuns at a sandwich bar and has noticed that they have suitcases with them. He now remembers the time when he was rooming with a kid with cheap suitcases. He then says,"I hate when somebody has cheap suit cases"(Salinger 108). If Holden hates someone just for having cheap suitcases he is going to have a lot of trouble developing meaningful relationships in the future because people might have other issues that are bigger than having cheap suitcases. If Holden can't deal with little things than he won't even approach people with bigger problems.
ReplyDeleteHolden keeps saying how depressed he is. It's because of how alone he has made himself. Just like back at Pency Holden writes, "what I really felt like, though, was committing suicide. I felt like jumping out the window"(104). He brought this up earlier when he fought with Stradlater. He just pictures the worst and doesn't have anyone to help him because he has isolated himself.
ReplyDeleteAfter Holden's talk with Sally Heyes he says, "She gave me a pain in the ass, but she was very good looking" (Salinger 106). This shows Holden's resistance against forming solid relationships because despite his loathing for this girls personality, all he sees of value in her is her looks meaning that Holden would rather see the bad things (Shes a "phony") than see the good (She's a genuinely nice person).
ReplyDeleteWhen Holden is eating lunch he sees to nuns eating lunch, they have cheap suitcases. Holden thinks, "but I can even get to hate someone just looking at them, if they have cheap suitcases". This shows that Holden cannot have a meaningful relationship with people who are poor because they will have cheap suitcases. This also makes Holden seem snobby, and people don't tend to want to have relationships with snobby people.
ReplyDeleteOne reason that Holden is so ambivalent about the adult world is because he is meeting people with a multitude of personalities. In the situation where Maurice and Sunny came in to his room to ask for more money, Sunny gets hold of Holden's wallet, "See? All I'm taking is the five you owe me. I'm no crook" (Salinger 103). Later on, Maurice pushes Holden and Sunny defends, "Leave him alone, hey. We got the dough he owes us" (Salinger 103). In this example, while Maurice tricks Holden to give him more money, Sunny is honest and says that it's enough. This confuses Holden between thinking that all adults are dishonest phonies, and that all adults are truthful.
ReplyDeleteWhen the two nuns Holden was talking to leave, he says that he enjoyed talking to them. Also that he would've "enjoyed it even more though... If I hadn't been sort of afraid, the whole time I was talking to them" (Salinger 112). If Holden wants to be friends with people and talk to people, he can't be afraid. He didn't lie to these nuns the entire time he was speaking to them, and that says a lot about Holden right now. He's trying to be nicer and more honest with people he meets, but he still can't be afraid to talk to people. Being afraid is what's going to make it even more difficult to develop relationships.
ReplyDeleteWhen Holden is on the phone with Sally, she says the word "grand," prompting him to tell the reader, "if there's one word I hate, it's grand. It's so phony. For a second, I was tempted to tell her to forget about the matinee" (Salinger 106). Even though Sally seems to be one of the people Holden is closest to, he is still easily upset by small behaviors of hers, such as using a certain single word. This disdain for even the most minuscule actions could make it very difficult for Holden to become truly close with others and build relationships with them.
ReplyDeleteWhen holden was talking about the disciples "They annoy the hell out of me, if you want to know the truth. They were all right after Jesus was dead and all, but while He was alive, they were about as much use to Him as a hole in the head." He thinks it in a negative way. If he is always depress or thinks negatively then it is hard to develop to a meaningful relationship.
ReplyDeleteAfter Holden's talk with Sally Heyes he says, "She gave me a pain in the ass, but she was very good looking" (Salinger 106). Holden keeps telling himself that all these girls that he meets and sees are all phonies and are just fake, but in reality he's having a hard time creating a real relationship to realize that all these girls he meets have really nice personalities once you get to meet them.
ReplyDelete"After they left, I started getting sorry that I'd only given them ten bucks for their collection... Goddamn money. It always ends up making you blue as hell." Money depresses Holden., Holden lets himself be create barriers isolating himself, and Holden clearly feels upset when he feel isolated. Therefore anything the stops him from developing relationships, like money, is going to make Holden feel depressed.
ReplyDeleteAfter Holden is beaten up by Maurice and sleeps, he decides to call Sally Hayes. When Holden asks Sally to watch a show on Broadway she accepts in invitation and says, "Grand." Holden immediately is irritated and remarks, "Grand. if there's one word I hate, it's grand. It's so phony. For a second, I was tempted to tell her to forget about the matinee. But we chewed the fat for a while"(Salinger 106).
ReplyDeleteHolden indicates to the reader that even the smallest of things can annoy him. As a result of Holden remarking everything negative about someone, he disables him from developing strong relationships.
Holden feels ambiguous about the adult world. He feels this way in part because of things like being cheated by adults. For example, on page 102, Maurice tells Holden to give him an extra five dollars because that's what he owed. Earlier however, Maurice told Holden it was only five dollars, instead of the ten he later claimed. Maurice even threatens him by telling Holden he's "gonna force [him] inna roughin' [him] up a little bit".
ReplyDeleteAfter Holden's talk with Sally Heyes he says, "She gave me a pain in the ass, but she was very good looking" (Salinger 106). This shows Holden's resistance against forming solid relationships because despite his loathing for this girl's personality, all he sees is the value of her looks meaning that Holden would rather see the bad things in people, than he does the good. This significantly holds Holden back from making relationships.
ReplyDeleteAfter seeing Sally Hayes, Holden says, ""She gave me a pain in the ass, but she was very good looking" (Salinger 106). This shows how Holden could struggle to develop meaningful relationships because he constantly refers to girls he meets as being phonies. If he were to get to know them better, he may not feel the same way and may be able to develop friendships with others.
ReplyDelete